So we’ve been in a weird, minor kerfuffle these past couple days (or so; I’m not sure whether Mr. Feldman is still paying attention to us) with Loren Feldman, over at 1938 media. I referenced him in my post Taking it Seriously, where I talked about how irked I am by people who float on in and expect the same consideration and respect, automatically, that a person who takes the craft seriously gets. He made a response video, which is here:
http://www.1938media.com/puppet-envy
(This is very NSFW, due to some extreme language)
Being somewhat better-humored than Mr. Feldman, we made our response, which was here:
Our first take on Mr. Feldman’s video was that it was a gag. We thought it was funny. He went off the deep end, with parodical amounts of venom, vitriol, and spittle. He seemed to be going through my post (which didn’t really dwell much on him particularly at all) point-by-point, responding in the most extreme way to each. It was well done, and, as I say, we thought it was a joke. We offered him criticism in the post, then suggested that some of those folks might not be interested in criticism, sitting in an imagined safe harbor of “it’s art!” and he yelled out, nearly wrenching his voice, that you can’t criticize me, because I’m an artist!
Now, I don’t want to drag this out any further, and I certainly don’t mean to be glorifying the man, but suffice it to say that I’ve since heard from people who know Mr. Feldman that it wasn’t an act. He really was as upset as he appears to be in his video, and when he says things like doing the most for puppetry since Henson, he means it. It’s certainly not true, but as he’s saying it, it’s in his head, and it’s the truth. This somewhat speaks to my point, although I’ve the feeling that Mr. Feldman, in his characteristic way, will (as he’s already actually done) call me an idiot for not getting the joke, then try to ignore me.
This isn’t how you grow as an artist. When you get critiqued by a peer, you should pay attention to it. As puppet Brian says in our response video, it doesn’t carry a lot of weight if a person who knows nothing about your profession offers you a criticism, but if there’s someone who does know a thing or two (and I’m not flattering myself here to suggest that I know everything about puppetry), you might do well to listen to it. And as some have rightly pointed out, my intent in writing that blog post wasn’t to get Loren’s attention, or ride on his (apparently fairly short) coattails, but rather out of love of the trade, out of a desire to see the people who are doing it do it better.
This whole thing also, I think, points at a reason why being goodnatured works well. In our response, I didn’t take it seriously. I laughed, chortled a bit, and made some good points, while clearly not letting what he said affect me. Why should it? It wasn’t any kind of criticism, it was simply mindless venom. And that, it turns out, was the best possible response to Mr. Feldman, because he doesn’t (from what I’ve since heard) know how to handle that. His gag is being aggressive to provoke a response, and I looked at him like he was a kitten. This worked well in the context of it being a gag on his part, and it works even moreso in light of it probably being a serious response on his part.
All this said, I would be happy to offer tips to Mr. Feldman if he were to desire them, or point him toward some great puppetry resources, because it’s the craft that matters to me, not some silly spat.
Lucid
As an independent observer observer to this “silly spat”, I would have to say that the impression you are leaving is that of an arrogant fool.
You spent an entire article bashing another man’s work with little technical or artistic criticism. You hid your envy with slanderous remarks more focused on your own self indulgence than helping a fellow artist.
Now you have spent more time trying to downplay the harsh and unfounded aggression you inflicted in your first post. Call it an assault rather than a “spat”, as I see Mr. Feldman simply redirecting the focus with his comical response.
Be a man first, and have respect for other people, then maybe your apparent jealousy will fade and you can be a true member of your community.
-Neighbor
Nov 14, 2008 @ 3:03 pm
Brian Hogg
I appreciate your taking the time to leave a comment.
I didn’t spend an entire article bashing another man’s work, as a point of fact. What I did was mention several people and their efforts, and pointed to what I see as a lack of seriousness in their efforts. While there is an obvious reference to Mr. Feldman’s work throughout, as he is part of the group I’m referring to, I only specifically mentioned him very briefly.
Please believe me when I say I harbor no envy of Mr. Feldman; I’m not entirely sure why I would, because even if you assume a level of success for me to be envious of, that leads to the obvious question of why it is that I would be jealous. Why would I begrudge another person that success? I certainly don’t. Also, slanderous is not the right term. Critical is, surely, but slander as a concept is in another category, and not a word that ought to be thrown around casually. Slander as a definition requires that I make an untrue statement about a person that would be damaging to his character. Aside from the fact that I made no such statements, the crime you’re thinking of is libel, which relates to the publishing of untrue, damaging statements. Written text can’t be slander, by definition.
And since when does criticism from a peer, from a person who has some knowledge about what he’s talking constitute an assault? The assault, sir, is in Mr. Feldman’s response: by all accounts it was NOT a joke, and he was being truthful and sincere when he displayed his opinions in his incredibly insulting, vulgar, and vitriolic response. That he later claims I don’t get the joke does nothing to mitigate the inappropriateness of the reply; at the very least, the man needs to learn how to control his temper.
Criticism does NOT warrant the kind of response he put forth, whether intended humorously or not. In my opinion, he didn’t redirect anything; he seemed only to have yelled out “fuck you” repeatedly at me for daring to offer up criticism. Should he be shielded from the thoughts of others if they are not endlessly glowing? I don’t want that shielding, and it’s not one I’d offer to anyone else. I care about the craft, sir, and I think he can and do better at it. I think everybody should.
People seem to be under the impression that I wrote what I did as some kind of a personal attack at him because I’m jealous of his success. Is that the only reason a person can point out someone else’s flaws? Isn’t it enough for me to be motivated sufficiently by the love of the craft to suggest ways that it can be improved? Isn’t it the height of vanity on the part of Mr. Feldman to think that my only possible motivation is to express such jealousy, to tear him down, and then steal his fanbase?
It’s a supreme irony that Mr. Feldman and his fans are so up in arms at this unprovoked assault on his honor, considering the only reason he has a puppet on his hand is because he launched a genuinely unprovoked assault against Shel Israel, doing so deliberately and directly to ruin his reputation, and to steal away his fans. It is emphatically not my intention, but even if it were, is Mr. Feldman the only person who can do such a thing? Has he cornered the market on snark?
I do indeed have respect for other people, sir. I offered a criticism, which is completely legitimate, and my points are all valid. I did not for a moment suggest that his content was bad, or somehow unworthy to be expressed, or that he shouldn’t continue working with and on the puppets. All I dared to say — so callous, so contentious an opinion, apparently — is that he try to get better at it.
As to your last point, sir, I AM a part of the communities. There’s another irony here, in that I have been criticized by many of Mr. Feldman’s fans in the past few days of not being someone they’d heard of (and, as such, a nobody, unworthy of consideration, because if I was worth anything, they’d already have heard of me); the only reason anyone in the puppetry community has heard of Mr. Feldman is because of me.
(Also, as to “be a man first,” please note that I’m not only letting your comments sit on this blog, but actually responding to them thoughtfully, which is a courtesy that Mr. Feldman does not seem to extend to people who disagree with him, as evidenced by his blocking me from his site, and removing some of my pre-existing comments about this very strange little affair, which, to my thinking, amounts to someone having a hissy-fit after receiving a grounded criticism)
Nov 14, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
Lucid
I do applaud the fact that you posted the comment and responded. I still believe that your intent was not constructive in any way, as the article was written in a very aggressive manner.
I do agree that his response was not in good taste, or in any way an approach to open dialogue. I have never heard of him before today, but I felt your criticism was more an attack on a mans craft than constructive feedback, as you suggest.
I will take your word that your intent was to provide a fair review, and offer suggestions. A more respectful delivery might offer a better impression of you in the future.
Nov 14, 2008 @ 4:40 pm
Brian Hogg
Any aggression that comes across is passion, Lucid; this stuff matters to me.
Nov 14, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
Tim Chapman
A friend sent me the link to your Youtube Puppetwars vid. He thought it was witty. I thought it was mostly just snarky, pretending to offer a serious response while calling the guy douchnozzle and such.
My problem with both your initial blog and your response to Feldman is twofold. First, your initial criticism was disingenuous. You weren’t offering a sincere critique. You were cutting him down to build yourself up and using the safest path to do so; saying, in essence, “I may not be that skillful either but I’m dedicated while Feldman is a dilettante which, in itself, makes me better than him.” Second, by comparing yourself to the other guy you were engaging in the type of self-promotion that people do when they don’t really believe their own hype. You’re like the John McCain of puppetry. I’ve since watched both yours and Feldman’s vids and, yeah, your puppets are better looking and you’re obviously more skilled at manipulating them (I won’t comment on content since that wasn’t part of your critique except to say that I really liked “Why I’m Proud To Be A Canadian”). Does that make you more dedicated? More of an artiste? More sincere? Nope.
Most of us artist types have fragile egos and aren’t good at taking criticism. Your response to Lucid here is more articulate than Feldman’s response to you but just as defensive. Your self-esteem issues are showing.
Respect the craft? Passion? C’mon. That’s just hiding behind the skirts of the muses. It’s like someone who has to explain his work because the “public” isn’t sophisticated enough to understand it. Man, those cats really give me a pain. They want adulation and/or acceptance but when they don’t get it they blame their audience. They were being true to their art (respecting the craft) but the plebs just don’t get it.
Anyway, sorry this is such a long rambling post. I guess all I wanted to say was, it’s hard to make good art while you’re sitting on a high horse.
Nov 18, 2008 @ 6:19 am
Brian Hogg
Hey Tim,
Thanks for taking the time to write out a response. Feedback of any sort is always much appreciated.
I would disagree, straight-away, with your contention that I was cutting Mr. Feldman down to build myself up; what I was doing was pointing out things that bother me, not because I have self-esteem issues (not that I don’t, but this wasn’t an expression of those issues), but because, as I’ve said, I care about the craft and it irks me when people who are practicing the craft don’t appear to be taking it seriously. Would you (or anyone) consider a mechanic to be on a high horse if he complained about people with terrible driving habits, or who drive down the street with the parking brake still on?
I don’t quite get why it is that a person seemingly can’t be upset for reasons that aren’t feeling threatened. Why do you and so many others seem so convinced that my motivations have to be impure? I’m confident in my skills, I have no desire to simply tear someone down to build myself up, I’m not trying to poach anyone’s audience. Hoggworks as a small but growing audience, and, I’m unbelievably happy and flattered that there are people who want to look at what we’re doing. There have been MANY, MANY times where we’ve left people behind in the videos we’ve done, but I don’t blame it on the audience; I try very hard not to fall into the trap you mention, assuming it must be that they don’t get it, but never your art.
To make a quick point about that level of introspection, Time, I should point you to a nascent series I did called Inside Hoggworks, which is still accessible here:
http://hoggworks.blip.tv/
In the “conversation with nick” episodes, I talk at great length about the failings of the work to that point, and the ways to make it better. So I take a bit of umbrage at the accusation that I’m hiding behind anyone’s skirt, or resting on my laurels.
Nov 18, 2008 @ 6:44 am
Tim Chapman
I don’t buy the idea that you’re just pointing out things that bother you. Quote:”What annoys me, personally, is when people don’t have that approach, and just blow in with the breeze, acting like they’re on equal standing with the people who do this every day, as though their simple presence earns them the same consideration as a person who lives and breathes the stuff.” Equal standing? Same consideration? See, this really speaks to your need to compare yourself to this guy. Not because you’re jealous, it’s obvious that your stuff is more sophisticated, but for a little ego boost. And being your own worst critic is good but it can be deceptive. It doesn’t give you license to hold everyone else to your exacting standards.
Hey, I’m not attacking you. Just trying to give you a little perspective. That’s the problem with blogs. They’re so damned public. Posting an opinion carries more weight than just turning to whomever’s in the room with you at the moment and saying, “Look at this shmoe’s puppets.” And you’ve probably noticed that most posters don’t have the guts to use their name. Anonymity equals bravery in the blogosphere. Anyway, you said you were open to criticism and this is mine- don’t take yourself or your craft so seriously that you buy into the hierarchical view of the art snob. It’ll eat you alive. That said, I like your work and wish you the best.
Nov 18, 2008 @ 7:27 am
maddy
Tim,
You’re not attacking him…? Are you serious? You’ve accused him of being ‘the John McCain of puppetry’, and ‘hiding behind the skirts of the muses’. He’s ’sitting on a high horse’? On the path to buying ‘into the hierarchical view of the art snob’? You began by criticising Brian for ‘pretending to offer a serious response while calling the guy douchnozzle and such’, and yet you’ve fallen into the same pattern that you’ve accused Brian of.
When offering criticism that you’d like to be taken seriously, perhaps not disguising the criticism amongst a crop of insults? Just a thought.
Nov 18, 2008 @ 8:56 am
Tim Chapman
Okay, so, apparently skins are thin up north. Nothing I said was meant as an attack. Was it honest and direct? You bet. Apparently Maddy and I have different ideas about what constitutes an insult. I thought I could offer a different perspective to a talented guy who (I felt) was spending a lot of time defending a position that is probably beneath him. I like puppet Brian and would probably like human Brian if I met him, too. That’s why I took the time to correspond. If it’s of interest, I didn’t bother to write to Feldman.
I rarely post to blogs for just this reason. It’s too easy to get sucked into pointless arguments. Being outraged and insulted will make it easy for you both to discount my opinion. No point in giving it any serious consideration. None at all. Just forget I stopped by.
Stay warm and if I ever need a puppet you’re the first ones I’ll call.
Nov 18, 2008 @ 11:50 am